deviant ART

`splat:iconsplat:

Patrick Haney, Not a Sausage  

The Comment Revolution: Guide To Commenting

`splat:iconsplat: Jun 11, 2004, 7:24:08 AM
Probably the most important part of The Comment Revolution is our education on commenting. To do this, we will of course have a "Guide to Commenting" or "Guide to Better Commenting." We don't need a name for it just yet.

What we need to discuss is how we're going about building this guide. We will need the critique guide that *ivyc is working on, which will be an integral part of the complete piece. There are other necessary parts though, such as a set of general steps to leaving a comment, a list of reasons why deviants should be spending more time on comments, and whatever else should be included.

I'd like to start coming up with ideas on how to organize this large guide, and how to separate it into sections, such as the "Critique Guide" part. We can use other guides as examples, but I expect our final product will be much more detailed than anything else available here.

Though I haven't come up with any solid structure yet, the following is a glimpse into what I envision. Feel free to add/edit/remove/suggest anything.

:bulletgreen: Guide to Commenting

:pointr: Introduction

Briefly mention commenting and what this guide is all about (and more, though I don't know what yet).

:pointr: Why Spend Time Commenting?

This is very important. We need to make it clear to the deviant reading why it is so important to comment well. I believe that this section has the most potential for converting people from one liners to more involved comments.

:pointr: The Rating System And You

Go over the Rating System. Why it should be used, how it works, who it effects, and why better commenting will help your comments stand out in not only the artist's mind, but in the deviantART community as a whole.

:pointr: Before You Comment

The steps that should be done before commenting, such as reading the description, spending time really looking at the piece, and looking at the other comments so as to not repeat others.

:pointr: Comment Structure

The structure of a good comment should include most if not all of these things:

:bulletgreen: Interpretation
:bulletgreen: Critique
:bulletgreen: Compliments
:bulletgreen: Questions

(these all come from `leodadominico's How To Give Better Comments journal entry)

:pointr: Language and Emoticons

Mention the language barrier and how deviants that don't speak English as their native language should feel free to write the best they can. This is where we make sure we aren't alienating foreign deviants. Also, we should bring up the emoticon usage issue and encourage deviants to keep the usage of these items at a minimum. A mention of l33t speak and using all CAPS should be in here as well.

:pointr: Guide to Interpretation

This is a possible item. I'm not sure if we need a separate guide for this, but it might be useful. Basically we'd just go over the basics of how to explain your interpretation of a piece and how to get that message across to the artist.

:pointr: Critique Guide

The large section *ivyc is working on right now. This will probably be long, so we may need to pull it out of this guide and link to it as a separate guide.

:pointr: After You Comment

What to do once the comment has been written. Includes revising, spell checking (even if just rereading for errors), grammar checking, etc.

:pointr: Closing

Some final thoughts, reiterate the entire thing, and remind user why commenting more professionally is good for him/her and the artist. Plus we should emphasize our goal is not to alienate those who can't be bothered with leaving lengthy comments.

--
`splat
Patrick Haney, not a sausage
Designer, developer, deviant

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`splat:iconsplat: Jun 11, 2004, 7:24:08 AM
Probably the most important part of The Comment Revolution is our education on commenting. To do this, we will of course have a "Guide to Commenting" or "Guide to Better Commenting." We don't need a name for it just yet.

What we need to discuss is how we're going about building this guide. We will need the critique guide that *ivyc is working on, which will be an integral part of the complete piece. There are other necessary parts though, such as a set of general steps to leaving a comment, a list of reasons why deviants should be spending more time on comments, and whatever else should be included.

I'd like to start coming up with ideas on how to organize this large guide, and how to separate it into sections, such as the "Critique Guide" part. We can use other guides as examples, but I expect our final product will be much more detailed than anything else available here.

Though I haven't come up with any solid structure yet, the following is a glimpse into what I envision. Feel free to add/edit/remove/suggest anything.

:bulletgreen: Guide to Commenting

:pointr: Introduction

Briefly mention commenting and what this guide is all about (and more, though I don't know what yet).

:pointr: Why Spend Time Commenting?

This is very important. We need to make it clear to the deviant reading why it is so important to comment well. I believe that this section has the most potential for converting people from one liners to more involved comments.

:pointr: The Rating System And You

Go over the Rating System. Why it should be used, how it works, who it effects, and why better commenting will help your comments stand out in not only the artist's mind, but in the deviantART community as a whole.

:pointr: Before You Comment

The steps that should be done before commenting, such as reading the description, spending time really looking at the piece, and looking at the other comments so as to not repeat others.

:pointr: Comment Structure

The structure of a good comment should include most if not all of these things:

:bulletgreen: Interpretation
:bulletgreen: Critique
:bulletgreen: Compliments
:bulletgreen: Questions

(these all come from `leodadominico's How To Give Better Comments journal entry)

:pointr: Language and Emoticons

Mention the language barrier and how deviants that don't speak English as their native language should feel free to write the best they can. This is where we make sure we aren't alienating foreign deviants. Also, we should bring up the emoticon usage issue and encourage deviants to keep the usage of these items at a minimum. A mention of l33t speak and using all CAPS should be in here as well.

:pointr: Guide to Interpretation

This is a possible item. I'm not sure if we need a separate guide for this, but it might be useful. Basically we'd just go over the basics of how to explain your interpretation of a piece and how to get that message across to the artist.

:pointr: Critique Guide

The large section *ivyc is working on right now. This will probably be long, so we may need to pull it out of this guide and link to it as a separate guide.

:pointr: After You Comment

What to do once the comment has been written. Includes revising, spell checking (even if just rereading for errors), grammar checking, etc.

:pointr: Closing

Some final thoughts, reiterate the entire thing, and remind user why commenting more professionally is good for him/her and the artist. Plus we should emphasize our goal is not to alienate those who can't be bothered with leaving lengthy comments.

--
`splat
Patrick Haney, not a sausage
Designer, developer, deviant
`splat:iconsplat: Jun 11, 2004, 7:27:05 AM
I should also mention that I'd like to have a very scaled down version of this at some point and offer up the idea of including it in some sort of New User Guide that deviantART could automatically send via note to any new account.

We obviously can't send this entire thing to them, but we can link to it in a note along with a quick mention of everything (or whatever we deem most important) above. That way the user can't just skip over the content completely and they can research further upon visiting the link.

I'll be talking with someone in the administration about this New User Guide soon.

--
`splat
Patrick Haney, not a sausage
Designer, developer, deviant
~ivyc:iconivyc: Jun 11, 2004, 7:54:49 AM
These are all VERY good things to include in an overall guide to commenting. Which would include technical writing skills for critiquing. I think that pursuading the general DA Public to take the time to write better comments is just as important as teaching them how.

:)

--
People learn more when they try to find answers.
!inziladun:iconinziladun: Jun 11, 2004, 9:39:15 AM
That looks like a fantastic layout! It seems there is a lot of emphasis on the kind of philosophical side of commenting too; why comment well (ethics), the nature of commenting and that sort of thing. I think it is very important that there should be a theoretical aspect in cooperation with the actual guiding technical factors. I might be interested in looking into that.. Looks good!
But I don't quite agree with the emoticon-restriction, at least not on the level you are suggesting.. I think that even though giving good critique and comments involves an attitude of some seriousness, deviantART is a brilliant place to give such comments because amid the professionalism there is a fun side. And I think it important to keep comments somewhat lighthearted in places, so as not to either complement a piece too neutrally or to give advice that might seem too unfeeling. I personally use a lot of emoticons (a little too much at times), and I find that especially since deviantART has such a unique and extremely wide variety of emoticons (a term which I'm sure was coigned to specifically override the more teen-y term 'smiley';) they should be put to use as subtly and fittingly as possible. As such, I agree that overuse and even free usage of the emotes should be restricted as one sees fit themselves, because putting a certain kind of emote in a certain place can have a notable effect on the presentation of a point.

But hurrah for pushing forward! Viva la revolución!! :salute:

--
but, mainly, Stay Classy
`blackzer0:iconblackzer0: Jun 13, 2004, 10:41:28 AM
Looks pretty all-inclusive. Keep in mind that a first guide will have to be "light", so as not to "intimidate / scare away" the 'apprentices' with its volume.

I'm currently preparing a guide, will be posted within the next few weeks... even though I'll finish in a few days, it's important to... 'lubricate' the channels, prepare my +watcher's minds. With polls etc.

This is very exciting.

--
"Enough about me, let's talk about you. What do you think of me?"
`mick-mick:iconmick-mick: Jun 13, 2004, 4:20:34 PM
There isn't much I can say at the moment and after pondering the scene for a while. Its all covered and been said well by you and the others.
My sentiments exactly.
I know this may be a counter productive type of comment and I also know that I can be a lack-luster commenter on a good day.
Old habbits die hard.
My support is with you.

--
`ArtistsForCharity | I, Gamer
`justthorne:iconjustthorne: Jun 15, 2004, 8:48:42 AM
My main observation is that almost every single topic listed could be a self-contained essay of its own. I'd suggest each section be written with that in mind, so that one can link to a specific section, and those following that link aren't (seemingly) dropped into "the middle of things." And keeping this in mind will probably result in better-written essays.

I think a strong overview essay is definitely a good idea, but also think modularity should be embraced for the project (even if each module includes a table of contents' links at the bottom...) The overview essay could be written in two slightly different versions, one for "standing alone" and one as an introduction to the greater body of content.

Just my :twocents:
`splat:iconsplat: Jun 15, 2004, 8:55:51 AM
:pointr: My main observation is that almost every single topic listed could be a self-contained essay of its own. I'd suggest each section be written with that in mind, so that one can link to a specific section, and those following that link aren't (seemingly) dropped into "the middle of things."

Agreed, which is why I wanted to start separating the content into groups so we can start thinking about the best way to organize things.

:pointr: I think a strong overview essay is definitely a good idea, but also think modularity should be embraced for the project (even if each module includes a table of contents' links at the bottom...)

Yes, of course. Each piece might be its own entity without the rest, but can easily be connected to the whole.

:pointr: The overview essay could be written in two slightly different versions, one for "standing alone" and one as an introduction to the greater body of content.

That was my plan as well. That way we can include the "stand-alone" version pretty much anywhere, including a new user guide note, or use the "intro" version for the entire Comment Guide.

--
`splat
Patrick Haney, not a sausage
Designer, developer, deviant
`splat:iconsplat: Jun 28, 2004, 9:35:08 AM
A deviant, named !seas, replied to one of the Comment Revolution journal entries with some useful information. Check out his journal entry at:

{ comments }

There are some good links in there. Not very detailed, but we might be able to build on some of them.

--
`splat
Patrick Haney, not a sausage
Designer, developer, deviant